Tom Goodwin and Rory Sutherland Fix Marketing (Part 2)

Two of our most popular guests return for a conversation on what’s gone wrong in modern marketing and how to fix it. Rory Sutherland and Tom Goodwin tackle everything from digital overload and bad choice architecture to the disappearance of taglines, long-term thinking, and genuine creativity.Expect behavioural science, contrarian thinking, and plenty of ideas that will make you rethink how marketing really works.

Jim Olson has spent his career helping businesses navigate moments of intense pressure from corporate crises to deeply personal challenges, running comms at United Airlines and Starbucks. In this episode, the author of Tailwind shares the lessons he’s learned from leadership, resilience, and facing adversity head-on.Drawing inspiration from Captain Sully’s Hudson River landing, Jim explains why the best crisis leaders follow the same process: aviate, navigate, communicate. We discuss where crisis management often goes wrong, what leaders can learn from failures like United Airlines, and why “black box thinking” matters in both business and marketing.Jim also opens up about his own cancer diagnosis and the mindset that helped him through it.Get Jim's new book, Tailwind here:<a href="https://www.amazon.com/Tailwind-Compass-Turning-Setback-Comeback/dp/B0GXCM3VYT/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&amp;dib_tag=se&amp;dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.pZMHz3ZqM-_n3nzswEVWao_RNqDBo0G-hUAWSUNIhsfPq-Ft1WQzWswS_KEGGW9XTYoYsyVWXZxDqofS15UwBfbw61zlsAl7-6yEUtTCHXF1vOfEKsOUeeFzP0pGbybGcq1LcPue7q6eqh8HwwLrtyRQiWMlWHLkdHFUJ6fRCM5xJUOQP8Ecr64bUjg3Y77SRosLZKo3S6AMPdHVfBGgCeWPqXRNrF12idxAqhII09w.0b60PTJRrbVeEIASYJyotUuUPFc6KP5wDhEtBJh0KKY&amp;qid=1777945783&amp;sr=1-1">https://www.amazon.com/Tailwind-Compass-Turning-Setback-Comeback/dp/B0GXCM3VYT/00:00 - Start01:11 - Lessons from Captain Sully’s Hudson River landing06:11 - The black box thinking approach to marketing07:30 - Other crises Jim has had to deal with in his career09:18 - When crisis management goes wrong - United Airlines13:11 - Managing merging two cultures15:27 - The situation when Jim’s CEO had a heart attack18:00 - Jim’s cancer diagnosis23:30 - The power of positive mentality28:30 - Don’t ask yourself what if, ask yourself why not31:34 - The power of a fourth space34:05 - Crisis doesn’t build character, it reveals it37:02 - Leadership lessons from Howard Schultz38:58 - Jim’s advice for those people facing a crisis

Dan Taylor has spent over two decades at Google, helping shape how brands grow through search, media, and technology. Today, he leads global advertising at one of the world’s most influential companies, giving him a front-row seat to the biggest shifts in marketing.In this episode, Dan shares what he’s learned from 20 years at Google, from the importance of simplicity to navigating organisational complexity and the evolving relationship between product and commercial teams. We also dive into the future of search, including AI, new tools like “Circle to Search,” and what it all means for marketers.