Uncensored CMO

Jon [00:00:06]:
Welcome back, everybody, to uncensored CMO. Now, in this episode, we're talking about a very, very serious topic, humour. It turns out humour is not just funny, but it's good for business. In fact, humor in advertising is one of the most effective things you can do to make people remember you and buy your product. Now, in this episode, I'm catching up with someone who knows all about humour. Trevor Robinson was the creative behind some of the most iconic and funniest ads of all time, including tango from the 1990s. And I caught up with Trevor to find out more about what makes advertising funny. How do you do it? And what are the funniest ads of all time? This is a really entertaining episode.

Jon [00:00:42]:
I know you love it, Trev, welcome to the show.

Trevor [00:00:45]:
Thanks for having me. I do like talking about ads, so we should be good.

Jon [00:00:48]:
Well, let's talk about ads. And let's talk about funny ads as well, because you've made some funny ads in your time. But before we get into funny ads, tell us how you got your big break in to advertising. How did you get into this industry?

Trevor [00:00:59]:
Well, it was quite difficult. Alan Young, who's my creative partner, we spent a lot of time on the dole and lots of time in interviews, and we couldn't even get a placement. Actually, no one even wanted to give us a placement. But we worked on our portfolio and worked on it quite a lot, extensively. And I think it was that time out of advertising. I think we got good because I was at college, did the usual, but I didn't think I was that good, and I thought I was. But when you really start showing your work to people, I think it was Graham Fink. We went to see him at Colick, Dickerson, Pierce with our portfolio.

Trevor [00:01:39]:
And I remember it was in a very darkened room and he had this massive office, and he was sat there and he groaned as he was looking at our work. And each time he turned the page over, he kind of groaned. And then he turned to us and he said, look, your work's good. You know, it's advertising. It's good ads. Anybody in this company can do this, but I don't see any goes. You guys look like interesting guys. And just, I could see the banter between you two.

Trevor [00:02:08]:
I don't see any evidence of that in your portfolio. So me and Al, it really hit home. And me and Al said, right, let's just do stuff that makes us laugh and makes us think and makes us, you know, and it sounds like an obvious thing, but I think that was a switch with us. And then we. He showed the work to Hal Henry, and we had some crazy stuff in our portfolio, and we got a job. But the terrifying thing was Hal Henry, at the time, was the best agency. Agency of the year, agency of the decade. It was killer.

Trevor [00:02:44]:
And Stephen Axe, I worshiped them, loved their work they had done. And me and Al was just like, couldn't believe we'd managed to land Hal Henry. But it was intimidating because they had people like Tim and Narish, and they had just done the Max hill tapes stuff, and it was, like, hilarious. Very funny and clever as hell.

Jon [00:03:08]:
Yeah.

Trevor [00:03:08]:
And Stephen Axe were geniuses anyway. And Dave Bonanguidi was there, who's now an artist, but him and Stevie. So it's quite intimidating when we first got there, but we were determined not to end up on a dole again and make our mind.

Jon [00:03:23]:
That's a good motivation.

Trevor [00:03:24]:
Yeah, it was. It was. We were pretty scared for the first year, and we were used to working overnight on our briefs and working the weekends and trying to push it at every stage. And we knew we had to be. We did well at Highland. We'd won some business, but we knew we had to make the industry and the outside world talk about our work. So when we was given the opportunity on Brickvik, that was our. You know, it's a tv ad that's gonna get money behind it.

Trevor [00:03:58]:
And I always remember the client came in, and the only time, I don't even know why, because we never really met clients. You know, the craters were kept under the stairs with Harry Potter, and you would never meet the clients. But for some reason, we met the client early. And I remember him throwing the gauntlet down and him being quite. Had a bit of a swagger about him. And he said, I want you guys to give me something that's going to make me famous, make my career. You know, I want you to do something that gonna get talked about. So that was like music to our ears, me now, because that's what we wanted as well.

Trevor [00:04:33]:
And Steve and Axe were very kind of maverick individuals as well. And they were really. They always wanted to do edgy stuff. They always. They were drawn to funny like we were. And we used to go into Stephen Axe's office and just laugh for ages about nothing, really, people must have thought was insane, but they had a really great sense of humor, and they seemed to enjoy the kind of warped sense of humor min Al had. So when we did tango, I always remember the first week, because we got Gil Scott Heron to do, you know, you've been tangled. And he did the voiceover.

Trevor [00:05:12]:
And I remember showing it. We showed it to him. I can't remember what it was, but he laughed and I was really nervous. And he was, like, going, you guys are crazy. And I remember just before the weekend, before it launched, I said to Al, you know, when you get that kind of stand back, epiphany kind of out of body sort of thing where I could see this is either gonna really make us, was gonna destroy us. And because we knew we had something that was different and it was difficult because you couldn't compare it to anything. So you were in that sort of stage. This is going to be hated or loved.

Jon [00:05:49]:
I mean, this is really interesting because as it happens, by chance, I was at Britvic working in the brand team, not on Tango, but I was actually working on another brand in Britvik. So I kind of experienced what you're talking about from the other side but very, very, very close to it. And the thing that was amazing about Tango was just like the way it excited the entire company and everyone got really excited by it and our customers were talking about it to us and the anticipation. And it was really unlike any soft drink advertising ever. I mean, you had, like, r whites, which was a little bit funny, you know, secret lemonade drinker, you know. You know, there were a few hits like that, but it was much more like beer advertising. It had that. It had that irreverence and that kind of adult humor to it that, I guess, was very untypical category, which made it.

Jon [00:06:35]:
Made it stand out. But the other thing I noticed, and it's interesting you talked about the client there because the debate we had at Britvik was whether it was okay to be banned or not. That was the debate we used to have inside was we're pushing the boundaries here so far that there's a risk that each campaign may get banned. And is that going to be a problem for us or not? Because we're going to invest all this media money. We may have to pull the ad kind of thing. But that must have created some kind of tension, presumably, or decision making on your side, because how far do you push the idea?

Trevor [00:07:05]:
Well, naively, me and Al, when we were coming up with the idea, it made us laugh a lot. And we like the perversion of instead of having a good sensation happen to you when you have a drink, it was that somebody comes up to you and smacks you and does something unpleasant to you.

Jon [00:07:23]:
Sorry to interject. It would be worth explaining how the ad works for anyone who's younger or listening in another country that might not be familiar with tango. Just explain the premise of the advert as well. And what happened to the ad?

Trevor [00:07:35]:
Well, the idea was somebody has a drink as a drink of the can and it's having a conversation with their friend on the street. And then you have these two male commentary, like, we based it on kind of american football originally because they always overanalyze things. And funny enough, football's gone that way now where the commentators are like little characters in themselves. And anyway, we took, took these two guys who would over analyze something that you haven't seen. And it just happened at the moment of taste sensation. So when you rewind the film, you saw this weird character come orange character who runs up and slaps the person who's just had a drink. And that was meant to be the hit of real oranges. And then, but no one else would have seen this.

Trevor [00:08:28]:
And even a person who experiences it doesn't really see it all. So it was just a very odd idea. And these guys would talk enthusiastically about what they've just seen. Oh, is the hit of real oranges and stuff like that. So that was the idea. And believe it or not, our creative directors liked it and everybody else did because it was a very odd way to go about doing, talking about the attributes of your brand and your product. And yes, you're right, it was the kind of things that you normally associate with, with beer advertising. But I was pretty conscious that no one had done something like this.

Trevor [00:09:07]:
And I guess that's like I said, it was quite difficult to realize if it was any good or not because, and it wasn't. It wasn't actually, until I was on a train going up to see my son and he lived in north hunting. And I was really exhausted. I think at that time I was working hard and playing hard because I was quite young and, and I was exhausted and I fell asleep on the train and I woke up to these guys talking about the ad and I couldn't believe it, that they were talking about art. And I remember thinking at the time, it would have been so surreal if I woke up and just said, hey, I did that. And then they would have just looked at me like I was a lunatic. So it was really interesting when it started to ripple, but I didn't anticipate, not for 1 second, that people would start hitting each other and causing perforated eardrums and all that kind of people to this day, still talk about the impact of the ad when it, when it came out and they were doing it in school. I mean, that's what I loved about advertising.

Trevor [00:10:06]:
If you can do something that get people talking about it in the real world, real people, my brother, you know, people that aren't in advertising, then I've really succeeded. I think it's great to win awards and to get plaudits from your peers, but what really gets me excited, I remember again, going into a cinema to see a film and apple tango was on the screen, everybody was laughing in the cinema. And, I mean, it sounds like a real ego thing, but it was just. You just couldn't. I couldn't describe how. What that makes you feel like when it's your work and people are laughing and talking about it. And I was like, wow.

Jon [00:10:45]:
Well, ITV have got this tracker where they actually measure how many people agree with the statement. The ads in the ad break are as good as the programs that we watch. And I don't know the exact figures, but approximately, it used to be about 50% of ads. People would go, well, 50% to the population would go, I think the ads are as good as the programs. I think it's something like 15% now. So you're right back in, when you and I were in the cinema laughing at ads, it was normal to think the ads were as good as the programs around them, but a lot less so today.

Trevor [00:11:16]:
I think having clients that are brave is, above all, the most important thing. Having clients that trust you as well. Like when we first did the Haribo ad, it might not seem such a courageous idea, but at the time, when I showed it to my client, he didn't really get it and he didn't really see what was funny about it. And it was on paper form. And also the structure was odd because we said, look, we can't write scripts for it because it needs to come from the kids. It needs to be their inspiration, their interpretation of the product. If we wrote down what these kids said, it would be cringy. Oh, it's really so tasty.

Trevor [00:12:00]:
And it's like, the hearts makes me feel love. If we wrote those things, people would smell it a mile off and just go, oh, that's horrible. But because it's coming from the kids, it's their imagination, it's their interpretation of what the product is. And that's what we do. We just give them the product and let them talk about it.

Jon [00:12:18]:
Yeah.

Trevor [00:12:18]:
And we add props in the room to get them to think around. It's a bit Darren Brown, but we get them to. We create an environment where they will have imagery and thoughts around something so you can steer them, but it's what they say and it's what is their interpretation of the brand and the product. And I think that's why people love it, because it's real, it's authentic. And that's what we had to explain to our client. This is what it needs to be. And we did the test film. Me and Mary sue came up with that idea and Mary sue uses kids voices and we shot it with everybody in the office.

Trevor [00:12:59]:
The account, the test film for me is genius as well. I love it because it's just, you had, I think it was two and a half minutes and it was just silly, but it kind of was a template for everything we did after that. And her still didn't really like it that much when he first saw it, but he showed it to people in the office and they were cracking up, so. And then I think when we shot the commercial in the end and did the boardroom, the first one, he turned to me and said, this is going to be really hard to do another campaign past this because the benchmark is up here and I think it's because it makes you smile and it's not real belly laughs, but it makes you feel. And I always feel this when I'm directing it or when we're on the shoots. The crew's different, everybody's got. It's got the heritage of people seeing it and people smile. You know, if I say to strangers and they go, what do you do? You know, and you say advertising and you say haribo and people change, their mood changes and, I mean, I really appreciate being able to do that with, with something that you've worked on.

Jon [00:14:08]:
I think there's something about the simplicity of that idea and it's repeatable. It's repeatable, isn't it? I mean, you've run it for something like twelve years now, haven't you? And I think some, sometimes, I think brands have to sort recreate the humor or push the humor, but actually you've just repeated some. A very simple device many times and the more familiar people get with it, the more they like it. It's like a classic joke, you know, you don't get tired of, you know.

Trevor [00:14:30]:
I think it's like police, for instance, that was like way down the line and that really did well on system one. I think they've always do well on system one and that was, people were. Police were imitating the ad and doing their little TikTok films and send them in and then you just think that's the best compliment you can get for something where here's an old campaign, but people are still redoing them, still talking about them, and still feel something from them. So a bit like specsavers. I'm really proud to be involved with something that's been, and it's gone everywhere in the world. It's been remade. Germany, it's been France, Japan, they won awards for it. In Japan, it was bonkers.

Trevor [00:15:12]:
The Japanese, these big sumo wrestlers with kids voices and it's really funny and as soon as you say subarrestors and you just know it's gonna be funny and, but it's, it's taken off all over the world and it's the biggest campaign and Herwig's gone from being, you know, he's now Mister Vinnekins. He runs it all in the world. And I think I saw him the other day for lunch. We did a little talk together as well and I could see it in his eye and he just said, I miss this because he's gone so senior now. He doesn't really work on, on the work anymore. And I think I could see him like, oh, I wish I was making these ads with you again. So it's good.

Jon [00:15:53]:
One thing I want to ask you about is where humour comes from, because, like you take, we'd mentioned specsavers in that bit, and the interesting specsavers is the line that Specsavers came up with was almost an accidental line at the end of end of a script where, and they almost had a bit of a joke between them. Oh, should have gone specsavers and then overdose. Years, that's become the idea. And then the familiarity with the idea means they can play with it and it can pop up in social media or out of home and all this sort of thing. And we, because we get the joke now that they've got so much more permission to kind of, you know, you know, stretch it all over the place kind of thing. But is, is a funny idea for an ad, something you can plan for? Can you kind of write it down and formulize it? Or is it something that just happens with the right people, the right chemistry?

Trevor [00:16:37]:
And I always think it starts with the creative team and it starts with the kind of personalities in. And I've struggled sometimes when I've, I realize they're good people, but they're not very, you know, like me and Al would just laugh our heads off about nothing. And we used to love being in the office because we said if anybody could hear what we're saying, they would just lock us up. It was like, you could be as perverse or as nice as you like, and you can go away from the brief and just keep coming up with lots of ideas. And I felt the same thing with Mary sue, and she's got a big one for fart kegs. But it was, it was a real. You need to have that permission, and you need to have that permission to do crap as well and to get through the crap, to get to the. To the diamonds.

Trevor [00:17:26]:
And. And some people aren't tolerant of that. They want the idea. They want to get to the idea as quick as possible so they can go out to lunch. And. And I really like the journey, and I really like just kicking things around and seeing how far you can go. And if you can't surprise the people internally and the person opposite you, you're in the wrong business. And that's why, even to this day, I love coming up with ideas.

Trevor [00:17:55]:
And we just. I was saying earlier, we presented about six ideas to a client. Three of them were really out there. Really out there. And to the point that my planner and my account guy said, you know, should we be sharing this? This is pretty bonkers. This is nuts. And it made me even more want to share it. And it turned out the three most out there ones the client liked.

Trevor [00:18:20]:
And they're slightly off brief, slightly mental. And you just hope those ideas get out there into the world, because people appreciate that. People don't want to see and hear the same old joke. They want. They want to be stimulated by the new and exciting, and they want to be shocked. They want to re watch the ad to go, have you seen that? I've got to watch that again. Now you just kind of look at ads and you just go, yeah, I get the gag. Don't really want to see it again.

Trevor [00:18:47]:
And that's why people want to speed past them and not look at it.

Jon [00:18:50]:
It's funny, actually, because I think having spent five years working with system one, understanding that the science and behind how advertising works, I think I'd have approached it. I'd now approach it as a client quite differently. It's been really fascinating because I think previously, as a client, I would have probably put a lot of weight on. Are you meeting the brief? Have you communicated the things that we've decided through our strategy that we need to communicate? And that would be how I judge you. I think what I've learned at system one is actually, unless you entertain people and make them feel something, they're not going to remember whatever it is you were trying to say. So actually, you are better making someone laugh, entertain them, and creating a good emotion. Because what we find in our testing is that if you can make people laugh, make people feel good, every rational benefit you're trying to communicate will improve. Whereas if you go in and go, well, our bank is open for longer hours and our customer service is better than theirs.

Jon [00:19:39]:
Whatever, you know, all the sort of like, things that most clients care about. Actually, your best way to do that is entertainment. And it feels, it can feel a challenge for a lot of clients because they work in logical organizations that, you know, here's my brief, and I need to make sure whatever you present back is tick, tick, tick on my brief. But advertising works in a much more mysterious way, which is more about how you make people feel something.

Trevor [00:20:01]:
I think the key point you made there is entertainment. I've always seen what I do as entertaining, even if it's a serious subject, if I'm not gripping you, if we're not entertaining you, if you're not talking about what you've seen and walk away with it, you've not done a good job. So for me, just doing an ad that meets the debrief isn't always enough. You got to do something that you feel a bit uncomfortable about as well. You feel like, oh, is this going to work?

Jon [00:20:32]:
You've reminded me one of the funniest ads of all time. If I had to write a list of my funniest ads, one of them would be British Heart foundation with Vinnie Jones doing CPR. Can you imagine? Like that lockstock and two smoking barrels. Hard guy. You know, you hire him to show people how to do CPR, but you watch that a. It's funny that it's him, but then you see, like, his bodyguards or whatever that are looking very awkward. I mean, just the way it's delivered and it's done to staying alive. Staying alive.

Jon [00:21:00]:
So you've got the music, which is clever. There's a bit of humor in the choice of track. You've got him, who's obviously playing his tough guy act, and then you've got these kind of bouncers who are a bit awkward about what's going on. But in some cases, the best way to tackle a difficult subject can often be in a lighthearted way. It gives you kind of permission to say things that maybe you.

Trevor [00:21:20]:
We did a project called I do this spin off to quiet storm, which is crate, not hate, where I bring in basically kids from my background and trying to get them in the industry and also get the industry to see them and say, you know, and it's been one of my passion projects for a while. And we did. One of the subject matters we did, this is after George Floyd was brutally murdered. I was very angry and my wife said, look, mate, you gotta chill out. You gotta do something, do something positive. And so we did the subject, we got the kids in and we said, how to. How would you tackle racism? Which is a huge subject, obviously. And one of the ideas that won over actually was quite funny.

Trevor [00:22:09]:
It was based on a young guy, Emmanuel, who did work with us for a bit. He's just gone off to university, but his idea was basically, he loves Frank Sinatra, he loves Shakespeare, but people look at him just think he's some, you know, this guy obviously likes grime or something, and he says, isn't that funny? And then we made the idea about that. We made the idea about these guys practicing Shakespeare, but from outside, they're in a little cafe, but outside in the car park, two people were watching them and they think they're aggressive and they assume it's a drug deal gone wrong or something like that, but they actually passionately running out the. And it was such a simple little idea. And it kind of makes you laugh despite yourself, because you're suckered into thinking that as well, because you think what's going on? It's only when you go inside, we do this little camera move in. You hear them saying these lines from Rome and Juliet. And so for me, it's like, I'm not saying you always need to use humor. I don't agree with that.

Trevor [00:23:21]:
But I do think it's a fast track to make you take in an idea that you might not want. You know, sometimes you see these ads on. For charities and stuff and you shut down. You know, you feel terrible, but you go, I don't want to see this. I don't want. You know, and you shy away from it, and it's almost like a protection thing. But if you have the same subject matter and you use warmth, entertainment, humor.

Jon [00:23:46]:
Yeah.

Trevor [00:23:47]:
To get that over, you're more likely to take it in.

Jon [00:23:49]:
So clever, because in that Shakespeare example, it could easily have been a lecture. Like, you know, you know, we're going to tell you about your prejudice and your unconscious bias, and it can feel aggressive, like, you know, you're. You're being told off or whatever, you do it like that and you experience it unconsciously, and then you feel the emotion when you. When the rug pull, you know, it happens. That's way better because you'll remember it, you'll feel it. You're much more likely to think differently about exactly in the future because we all have it. Yeah.

Trevor [00:24:15]:
You know, it's a.

Jon [00:24:16]:
It's not attacking you, is it attacking.

Trevor [00:24:18]:
Your core, letting you just, you know, read that book cover and think, you know, you know, it's kind of like, it's. It's. I always think the best advertising does that, you know, makes you. Even if it's a simple idea, like the Gorilla Cadbury's ad. And I know people, like, slagged it off in the past, but I still think it's one of the best ads ever to talk about the emotion, what it feels like to eat the product rather than showing somebody eating a bar of chocolate or feel it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, feel it. And, like, appropriately, with the. With the track that.

Trevor [00:24:56]:
Using it. I remember, again, watching that, and it's. I always think that's a real gauge of a brilliant ad, is when you envy it, when you wish you'd done it and you have that sick feeling in your stomach when you see an ad come on. And I remember when Tom Walters Guinness ad came on the box, and I think it was at the time as well. One of my best friends called me and he goes, did you see it? And I went, yeah. And it was like. It was like one of those, you know, moments in time that you just kind of can remember where you were when you first heard the kids. And the key thing was, I knew I could never do anything as good as that.

Trevor [00:25:33]:
Not on that completely layered, you know, surfers, horses, the track, you know, beautifully shot by Glazer. And it was just. It was awesome. And that, for me, is my favorite ad of all time. But it makes me feel sick when I look at it because you just go, oh, my God, it's so good. And even when Chaz and Jim, who did the black current tango, they came into our office to tell us the idea, and Al was laughing about it. And it's like, I didn't get it at first. When they said it at script for it, I went, why is that good? And Al was going, you're joking.

Trevor [00:26:12]:
It's really good. Then I saw it on tv and I went, oh, my God, that is so good. And you just. You just get it. And I think sometimes the difficulty about an idea also as well is are people going to get it at script form? Are they going to, you know, having a client that gets it or at least trusts you as well? It's so important. The best ideas I've ever been involved with would never have happened if the clients didn't back us. And as I know, it's the obvious.

Jon [00:26:39]:
Thing that's a really, really powerful. The other thing, actually, about black current anger. I can imagine if you had the storyboard of that, you'd go, what? We're going to have a. Someone writes a complaint and we're going to have someone replying to it. And then by the end of it, we've got Harrier jump checks, white clips of Dover and a boxing match. That's completely bonkers, right?

Trevor [00:26:56]:
I mean, I think, again, it's like, in hindsight, it makes everybody a great judge of an idea. And I think sometimes you have, especially as a creative director, I always have to just stand back for myself because sometimes when you hear a new idea, it actually, you reject it in a weird way because you're. I don't know what to compare it to. So there's that little battle you need to defeat in yourself and to make sure a great idea doesn't slip through your fingers. And then the next thing I think, and I'm really lucky, because at quiet storm, we write and direct our own work. So you're able to nurture that idea, nurture it and build it and escalate it, not just with the casting, but how you shoot it, how you edit it. And so many times, like, looking at that Hamlet ad, I remember envying that ad even before I was in advertising, and just thinking it's one shot and it's like brilliantly acted and so simple. And it's just every moment of it is perfect.

Trevor [00:28:02]:
And even when he smokes the cigarette, obviously, he couldn't do that now. And he blows it into the air and the camera flashes that. I recommend people watching that if you.

Jon [00:28:12]:
Haven'T seen it, you write actually about acting as well, because Ray Gardner in the black current tango, that only works really because of his personality. He carries that ad himself. You talked about the Hamlet ad. It's brilliant. The actor in there is amazing. I did a little LinkedIn post this morning asking people to tell me their funniest ads of all time. The amount of them that have got comedic actors in Rowan Atkinson or Peter Kay in the John Smiths ad, Melanie Sykes in the Boddingtons ADHD. And so many of them depend on kind of popular actors, you know, comedians doing their turn, you know, doing what they're famous for.

Jon [00:28:46]:
And that. That's a big, big part, isn't it?

Trevor [00:28:48]:
Yeah. You need talent and I've lucky enough. I remember working with Olivia Coleman before she was famous, and we did a Schwartz ad. Actually, that was with Herwig. That's the first time I met him, my Haribo client, and we did a series of ads, and one of them, Olivia Colman, and you could just see how. How amazing she was and how talented she was, and I just loved filming her. And you just kept the camera rolling. I just didn't want to stop filming her.

Trevor [00:29:14]:
And I think I've been lucky enough to stumble across some really people that's gone on to doing some great work. And I think you got to start there. You got to start with the right ingredients, and one of the right ingredients is, if you're shooting something, you got to get the best possible person, because they're going to escalate your idea.

Jon [00:29:32]:
You made a little dropping comment earlier about quiet storm that you both create and direct as well. That's quite unusual, because in my experience, mostly you've got the creative team that come up with the idea, and then there's this kind of handoff to a director who usually has their own ideas. And one of the things I found is absolutely pivotal is that director selection and the way the director works with the idea. And I've seen great ideas crushed, and I've seen average ideas become genius. And, I mean, probably one of my favorite ads of all time, I worked on fruit shoots, and this is back in Britvick days, actually, when around the time we'd have been working with you guys on tango, and we shot this ad in Colombia, Columbia, of all places. It turns out Columbia's got an amazing film scene. I never really realized.

Trevor [00:30:13]:
Is that right?

Jon [00:30:14]:
Yeah. I mean, insanely cheap as well. So we shot two.

Trevor [00:30:17]:
Bear that in mind.

Jon [00:30:18]:
Yeah. No, this is a good tip. We shot two ads for €130,000, and the equivalent quote in the UK was 500,000 to do one ad. And we did two for €130,000. We flew out there, we got the acting talent there. We had a crew of over 100. They were so dedicated, and we had five days out in the mountains in Colombia. It's just the most magical thing.

Jon [00:30:41]:
But anyway, reasons to tell you the story was Daniel, the director, was young, up and coming, and we spent so much time together, like, basically improving the scenes or the ideas or how the story is told. There was no ego about, I know what I'm doing. You as a client can shut up. It was just this collaboration. It was brilliant. I've equally worked with some much on paper more famous directors that have got the most amazing books. And it's just been like, this is how I'm doing it. This is my treatment.

Jon [00:31:09]:
This is my way of doing things. This is what you're getting. And those have been the ones that have just not done very well, you know. But what tips have you got on the direction as well to bring, bring the, you know, bring a creative idea to life?

Trevor [00:31:22]:
It's all about collaboration. It's all about everybody's got an opinion and it's been able to sieve through that opinion and take the best things from it. And I feel the best directors did that. Matt Forrest, who shot Artango years ago, me and Al, was all over that because we didn't want it to fail. And we were like pestering the whole time. And in the end he exasperated, he's a very funny guy. He gave us a cam called a camera and goes, go out this weekend. Shoot it.

Trevor [00:31:51]:
Just go in the park and shoot it. And me and Al went, oh, all right then. And then we had the Morcom and wise little slap on the cheeks. And then we realized it wasn't impactful enough. So that's why we ended up having our arms out wide and the slap in so it looked like, wow, that's gonna hurt. And it was those little things. And we shared that with Matt and he took it and he just escalated and we just did that. And I think that's the best way.

Trevor [00:32:20]:
If people, if you put the creative team on a monitor by the urinals, by the toilets and not have their input, it's their idea, it's their fault, you know, and, like, you gotta be able to keep them apart of the whole equation. And invariably they're probably the one that's gonna be doing the editing of it once the director swans off to do another job. So, and I, me and Al was in that problem where we had, like yourself had ideas that plummeted and we thought they were great ideas and we realized the director didn't care or didn't even understand the idea, really. And we lived with it, obviously, where you win the business or you've been nurturing it for sometimes up to six months, a year to get it out the door and you give it to a director who works on it for two weeks or something and basically you believe that they understand the idea and they can escalate the idea. And if you're lucky, you'd get like, Frank Budgin was absolutely a genius. He's not alive in him, but he was an ex creative and I think that's why he really, he understood and he loved advertising and he loved ads. So he was able to escalate an idea and get the best out on an idea. And I think the ideas I've been involved with, they're not.

Trevor [00:33:39]:
I wouldn't say it's genius. I just think we know how to get the best out of that idea in the same way we know how to get the best performances for the Haribo ads, the best casting, what's the ingredients that makes it sticky with people and makes it lovable and entertaining? And we know we get that. Do you know what I mean? And I got the feeling, and I've seen it before, when people dismissed the process and just did it their own way and wrote the lines and stuff, they just don't work. It's just. It feels sterile. It feels fake.

Jon [00:34:12]:
You had an interesting point, actually. I was listening to Jimmy Carr on Stephen Bartlett's podcast, talking about how much of his jokes have failed, but how much work he puts into practicing, practicing, practicing, and all the famous jokes that we kind of laugh at now, he said he's tried 10,000 in a pub somewhere you've never heard of. But he just keeps practicing, keeps being consistent, gets the feedback, improves it again and again and again. But I was really fascinated by how much effort he puts into, but also how it's built up over the years so that he now just knows, you know what I mean? And I think you should have gone to specsavers. That idea is 22 years old. Your Haribo idea is twelve. There's an element to which you now know, don't you? Because you practiced it. Some have gone, well, some haven't.

Trevor [00:34:54]:
We know where.

Jon [00:34:54]:
You know how. You know that formula now, don't you?

Trevor [00:34:57]:
Yeah. I mean, like, you like numbers. You can't have more than five, seven people in a 32nd commercial. Cause you can't. You don't have enough time to experience the different characters and to watch the simplicity of having a grown man with a kid's voice coming out of them. And it sends them. Keep it simple. Don't try and use lots of tricksy camera work.

Trevor [00:35:20]:
You know, two guys sat in a car, two policemen talking about the product. That's it. And keep it simple.

Jon [00:35:28]:
Almost one of my top advice, actually. I think from reflecting on work I've done and now I help other people do advertising, is probably simplify the idea. Try and say less, but make the less you say better, because people try and do this. Like 32nd AB, we're going to have six different scenes. We're going to cut here, cut there, cut there. We'll bring in this person, that person. We'll try and have everyone reflected in it, all that kind of thing. And it's often better just tell one story, but just tell it brilliantly.

Jon [00:35:55]:
And it's often what we try and encourage our clients to do.

Trevor [00:35:58]:
Well, everybody wants to, especially directors wants to. It's a calling card. They want it to be used. That dolly, that camera, that crane, you know, that crash zoom that, you know, swing to camera and all those things are, they're trying their best to do, you know, their poor little things in a commercial. And that's a movie, by the way. It's not a statement about their work, but that they're trying to show off. And so they should. Do they want, they want to prove that they're, they're good, he or she's good at what they do.

Trevor [00:36:31]:
But sometimes you're right, less is more. And just try and make the idea come to life. And by any means possible, you do that. You know, you did, you try and make it, you try and make it memorable and you, and that's what you start with. And you try and make it like, and I often know something that I learned from who was at Walter Campbell once said to me, he goes, shoot what you've come there to do and what the client has asked you to do, and then just shoot anything. Keep going, keep going, keep, keep trying stuff on the day. And then once you've done that, move to the next take. And invariably I've realized the extra stuff is what I end up putting in it.

Trevor [00:37:14]:
And it has that something, you know.

Jon [00:37:17]:
That'S great advice, actually. It's almost in your production shoot, building extra time for the funny takes. I mean, weirdly, I find it on this podcast, actually, that some of the best content happens before and after the cameras stop. Right. And it's almost like you need to factor that in because some, occasionally, you know, we actually put it in back in the edit. But, you know, sometimes it's, that's the best content, isn't it? It's the bit that's unscripted.

Trevor [00:37:38]:
Yeah.

Jon [00:37:38]:
You just get the natural reaction.

Trevor [00:37:39]:
I think so. And I think that's what we, we all strive for. You know, no one enjoys a conversation with someone where you don't really feel like I'm getting to know you. And I find that more and more I get older as well. I forget people's names. And it's invariably, it's people I've just met in person in the advertising industry and you don't really know who they are. You never really. They've not shared anything.

Trevor [00:38:04]:
You've not shared anything with them. And I think that's what we, what we all hunger for, you know, is to have those connections, not just with your kids, not just with your family and your friends. You want to have that with as many people that you come in contact. And that's, I believe, what I'm trying to do when I'm trying to entertain people. I'm trying to give people a little insight into themselves as well.

Jon [00:38:26]:
Yeah. Now you've been a can lion judge, haven't you? Even a titanium lion judge. So congratulations on that. What's happened to humour in the last few years? I mean, the data points are not great, right. We've had a, you know, not unreasonably escalation in purpose. Seems like we've got all serious, right. And that's replaced humor. We also know from system one database, we've been tracking amusement levels, believe it or not, and we actually measure this and we've seen a steady decline over the number of years.

Jon [00:38:55]:
And then perhaps the most extraordinary statistic is we did some work last year with Adam Morgan and Peter Fields. And Peter looked back at the IPA database and the IPA database is astonishing in how much data they're in and campaigns and effectiveness. And he looked at the campaigns that created emotion and the campaigns that didn't create emotion. The ones that created neutrality, right. The ones that were dull, for want of a better phrase. And what he worked out was this incredible statistic that the dull campaigns had to spend an extra 12 million on media to achieve the same business outcome as the interesting campaign. So they worked out that 12 million per campaign is the cost of being dial, which I just thought flippin egg. So being funny, humor, creating emotion is also good for business, right?

Trevor [00:39:42]:
Oh, yeah. We used to say that even in the early days, if you don't have a great idea, you put it behind media and you just ram it down people's throats. And I always thought, oh my God, I just want that ad to remembered and people want to see it again and want to watch it again and talk about it. And that's, that's the ambition. If they only see it once, you want to know it had some impact. And I just think people don't think about like that. You know, they think about their briefs. They think about, like you said earlier, think about the things that they think is important, that they, they've, they've ticked off.

Trevor [00:40:20]:
This is what our brand stands for. And they don't really think enough about those people out there, don't care about your brand, do not care about buying your product. They're buying into the personality of the brand. They're buying into to those attributes that, that they want to have fun with, want to enjoy. I think people are just a bit lazy. Cause they think, and I think that's why the advertising has gone so turgid and boring. Something that struck us, we're looking through all this work and it's all brilliant, clever stuff. And then there was one campaign that was funny and, like, after we've been in this darkened room for about a week and it was funny and we were all laughing.

Trevor [00:41:02]:
Oh, this is great. And we suddenly realized the reason that we love it so much. It was, it was an antidote to this terrible sea of, of non funny and taking the world very seriously and taking our products very seriously. And I couldn't even remember half the brands that we'd already given an award to. You know, that's. That's the truth.

Jon [00:41:25]:
Yeah. And you work in the industry, so you've got a radar for this stuff as well. If you. With your looking out for it and being sat down and presented it to can't remember it, then what hope has that got in the real world?

Trevor [00:41:36]:
And it's a key thing, what you said earlier, again, it's about being entertained. If I'm not being entertained by it, why will I remember it? So why are you putting all this money into advertising that nobody is going to remember and nobody's going to be getting any joy from at all?

Jon [00:41:51]:
Well, on that point, let's try and work out the funniest ads of all time because I asked the audience earlier just to give me a lot of suggestions. I asked Rupert is. Rupert is on the founders of Howe Henry, but I asked him what would be his favorite ad of all time, and he actually said exactly the same as mine. And you've already referred to it, which was the Hamlet cigar ad, which I just think one take, one idea, brilliantly acted and so funny. It's just that. And also, you have to be of our kind of age, right, because you have to remember like a. Because it's an old ad, but also you remember coming to get your passport photo done and those little plastic chairs that used to. You have to spin round to get to the right height so that you're kind of in the camera and it still works.

Trevor [00:42:33]:
I shared it with some students that we. I was doing a talk for shared that ad. None of them seen it, and they all cracked up. They all laughed about it, because it's that there's a real truism in there. You know, he's struggling to look good, and everything keeps going wrong. It just feels like a little snapshot of life for all of us. So everybody relates to it, even if you haven't never sat in a booth yourself. Everybody relates to that ad.

Trevor [00:42:58]:
And for me, I loved it because it's laugh, laugh out loud funny, but it's the simplicity of the idea. It's a perfect ad.

Jon [00:43:10]:
It is brilliant, isn't it? What would you put as your funniest ad of all time? No, I don't mean the one that you've made. But what would you, if you had to pick one ad that you.

Trevor [00:43:16]:
Well, it would be that one. I'm trying to think of anything else. I really love the Skittles campaign, the american skittles stuff. I just think some of those are genius and nuts. And the thing going back to clients, how does. Who signed those off? And you knew they work and people talk about it and people show you. Creative teams come bounding in and going, have you seen this one? And they. People scroll around on the Internet to watch all the different versions.

Trevor [00:43:44]:
So for me, that was pretty impressive, and I envy the work, and it makes me laugh.

Jon [00:43:51]:
Yeah. I think what would be the best american Super bowl ad? I would go. I had two came to mind. Firstly, I think Old Spice is just very clever.

Trevor [00:44:01]:
Pretty good.

Jon [00:44:01]:
And then the other one that just keeps making me laugh. I don't know why. It's funny how, like, sometimes you can see things 20 times and you're still laughing the same 20 times. But the tide ad, I just find really funny because they've taken everyone else's ad and said, oh, that person in a clean, clean shoe, that's a tied ad. You know, something like, really inverting the genre of Super bowl ads onto their favor and just turning the tables. I just thought it was a very clever, very clever device. And then the other ad as well, if we stick on the american theme in a different genre as well, is dollar shave club. Oh, do you remember the dollar shave club ad? And just like, where it's like, taking the Mickey out of the dominant player, but you got the founder just kind of doing.

Jon [00:44:42]:
And again, it wouldn't have cost hardly anything. Shot in a warehouse somewhere.

Trevor [00:44:46]:
Breath of fresh air.

Jon [00:44:46]:
Yeah, didn't it? It's so different, wasn't it? It's like it wasn't overproduced. It was kind of slightly comically under produced, but very well acted.

Trevor [00:44:54]:
And it was a real testament to it. It was imitated so many times afterwards and people would say, give me a dollar shave.

Jon [00:45:00]:
Yeah.

Trevor [00:45:01]:
So it's like you could see a little bit of that in the new Warburton campaign. There's an element of that in. Even in that execution. So I always think it's a real testament when an idea, even in people's subconscious, it pops out in their work.

Jon [00:45:17]:
Yeah, it's a bit like when you get into vernacular, like should have gone to specsavers. You know, you create something that even becomes. Or you've been tank, you know, when you've been tangoed, that became, like you said about your falling asleep on the tube kind of thing. That becomes something that seeps in popular culture, which, you know, you've done it. The other. The other kind of category of brilliant ads, I think, is beer ads from the eighties and nineties. For some reason, that category just went all in on humor. I mean, some of the ideas that came in from the chat this morning, you've got Boddington's with Melanie Sykes, you know, and actually, the other thing that.

Jon [00:45:48]:
So we got that we got Heineken, the water and Mallorca don't taste like it. Or, you know, that one as well. You had the Peter K ads with John Smith's. Oh, those were great.

Trevor [00:45:59]:
Joan Collins and Leonard Rossiter ads. I remember that when I was a kid and just thinking there was. It was the same gag every week. He ends up throwing drinks on her. But it was just so funny, just. It was so watchable. And I really. Lots of those ideas really were those things that compelled me to get into advertising and want to do something like that.

Jon [00:46:20]:
The thing that I thought connected a lot of those actually, was play on words or an accent or language. So another one came up as well, was exactly water in Mallorca. I hadn't seen this one before, but someone sent. It was, oh, really? A German. A german coast guard. And there's a british vessel going into german waters, and the new german coast guard has turned up and there's a mayday signal. Signal. And basically on the mayday signal, the english guys are going, we're sinking.

Jon [00:46:47]:
We're sinking. Anyway, the german guy goes, what are you sinking about? My german accent failed me there. But it was basically, what are you sinking about? Sort of thing. Like, there's this very funny conversation about misunderstanding each other, sort of thing.

Trevor [00:47:01]:
Do you ever see that one? I can't say on air, I don't think. But the one with the family in the car listening to rather risque lyrics to a song and it says at the end, learn English. I think it was learned, it was about learning a language and it was just quite funny. They were jolly singing this rather rude song and they have no idea what they're singing.

Jon [00:47:25]:
Actually, similarly to that, Kerry sent me this one. I didn't know there's a VW ad that got banned and it was basically this little girl, I mean, she looked like four or five and she kept saying, she kept on saying bollocks like this. So she knocks over some paint, she goes bollocks. And then something else happens and she trips over, she goes bollocks. And you're going, this is what's going on here, sort of thing, anyway. And then basically it then pans. So she's in the back of the car, in the car seat and the dad's putting petrol in his car and he realizes it's a diesel car and he goes, oh, bollocks. And then the little girl's going, bollocks, daddy, bollocks.

Jon [00:48:00]:
It's a horrible moment as a parent where you realize your kid is copying you. But how brilliantly. They got banned. Well, yeah, it got banned, you know, but like, what a brilliant use of inverting the language.

Trevor [00:48:11]:
Yeah, it's very. Really. I mean, that's why you love advertising. And invariably all the ones that we talked about is probably over, you know, ten years old. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of. It's a bit shocking. And I guess that's why they've introduced that category into Cannes. Lions, a comedy category.

Jon [00:48:29]:
Well, there we go.

Trevor [00:48:30]:
Yeah, that was a surprise. I find that bizarre, isn't it? Bizarre? I mean, like, I could see the point because I've been sat in those rooms where everybody who believes they're going to win an award, they don't believe that a funny ad's going to do it. And I remember even, and with me and Al was doing work, we would go, not going to win in Cannes. It's funny. And I think the problem is that's perforated throughout the whole of the advertising world. The people just feel like unless it's for a cause, for a purpose, it's not going to get past your clients and it's not going to win you awards. And that's the terrible thing.

Jon [00:49:10]:
Well, apart from being rather odd that we have to categorize something that should be in everything.

Trevor [00:49:14]:
Exactly.

Jon [00:49:15]:
There's loads of pressure isn't there to win the humor or so I'm looking forward to it. Oddly, it's probably the category I'm going to go and sit and listen to and just see, because I think we need a bit more humor. So let's just get behind all those entries and show what it can do. Trevor, it's been amazing chatting to you, mate. Thanks for coming in and talking about this.

Trevor [00:49:33]:
Thanks for inviting us.

Jon [00:49:34]:
I hope we can get a bit more humour out there and make everyone relax a bit.

Trevor [00:49:38]:
Well, I'll try my best, yes. Whilst I'm still going, Trev's available.

Jon [00:49:43]:
If anyone wants a funny script written. He's around for sure. Amazing. Cheers, mate.

Trevor [00:49:48]:
All right.

Jon [00:49:48]:
Good to see you.

Trevor [00:49:49]:
Thank you.

Jon [00:49:49]:
Thank you very much for listening or watching uncensored CMO. I hope you enjoyed that. If if you did, please do hit the subscribe button wherever you get your podcast. If you're watching, hit subscribe there as well. I'd also love to get a review. Reviews make a big difference on other people discovering the show, so please do leave a review wherever you get your podcast. If you want to contact me, you can do. I'm over on Xensocmo or on LinkedIn where I'm under my own name.

Jon [00:50:14]:
John Evans, thanks for listening and watching. I'll see you next time.